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<h1 class="left">dirty: Tell me a little bit about yourself.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: My name is Hannah Rose, and I'm from New Zealand, but I grew up in Montreal, Canada, which is where I met Steven.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: My name is Steven Raj, and I was born in Montreal, but my mom is from Guyana, and my dad is from Sri Lanka.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">dirty: How did you meet each other?</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: We met in Montreal, in fashion design school. There's really only two schools in Montreal for fashion design, and the one that we went to was very technical.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: It was less about design. It was more about practical skills, which wasn’t a great feeling as creative people because all you want to do is express and express. Maybe we were quite angry.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven:  To be honest, we were really oppressed. I was already starting to play with my gender and experiment, and going to a school like that was not necessarily the safest place for someone like me at the time.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: When we met, we were able to help uplift each other and creatively express ourselves by being best friends.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: We looked very different then.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: This is before shaving our heads and everything. I had long, blonde hair, no makeup. I would never show my body.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: Yeah, you were very preppy, very conservative. I was already starting to play with gender. I was really into Japanese designers and was going for something poetic and interesting, but I felt like I was living a lie at that point. I felt like I was hiding myself. And when I met you, I felt like you were hiding yourself too. We just started doing our own thing because we had each other, and we were really good friends. But then that's also when we started falling in love and developing our own relationship. And through that was born Fecal Matter. There was this one project that we had to do to graduate, and we decided to do it together, although it was an individual project. But through that process was how we developed every single thing that we're doing today— finding a solution to create without filter, without censorship, an outlet to be able to express the ideas that we've always wanted to, and finding a platform that can possibly help people around the world to also find that confidence that we were giving each other.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">dirty: Do you remember your first interaction with each other?</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: Before I even met Steven, I saw a dress on a mannequin in a room in college,  it was made of garbage bags or something, and it really moved me. Later on, Steven joined my class, and we became friends. One day, we went to his locker and that dress from the classroom was sitting there all scrunched up and I said, “oh my God, this dress. I love this dress!” And he's like, I don't care, it’s an old project from many years ago. Anyway, all of this is to say, I feel like Steven and I were souls that were meant to connect. Because even without meeting Steven, this dress in this room from many years back spoke to me as a piece without knowing who made it.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Steven: When I was like eleven years old or ten years old, that's when I started drawing because I was getting bullied a lot at school, and that was the only place that I felt safe. I look back at those drawings and I see that it’s literally Hannah. Like, I was already drawing this figure that looked exactly like her. And I guess to answer your question about the first time we met was probably not even physically.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: It was probably mentally and spiritually.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">dirty: Do you hear this a lot, that on Instagram you have this very mysterious, intimidating feel about you, when in reality, you both are such mushy, lovey people?</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: That's a big thing we get all the time. I think in the media in general, people that look like us are drug addicts, the villains in movies. We're the scary people. We're people that seem violent. The media has told us these things from the beginning of time. So I think it's natural to expect that people who look like us aren't always like that. Even for us, there's no drugs, we don't even drink alcohol. We're really even rebelling against what we're supposed to be.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: I think that intimidation maybe stems from a deep pain that we experience. But as people, I think that we're just who we are, and we're really optimistic.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: I live by the rule of treating people how I want to be treated. So if I want to be treated like an asshole, then I'll be an asshole. But I don't want that. I want to be treated with kindness, with respect, with love.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: If you just show someone our Instagram, if they don't understand it, the person would run for their lives because it’s scary and intimidating. But at the same time, that's why we always try to present work where it's us outside of just the image.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: And I hope when somebody meets us and they say, oh, wow, they're actually really nice people, that next time they're on the bus or they're on the metro or they're at a party and they see somebody who looks a bit different, they don't judge them in the same way.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Dirty: What did you seek to achieve with Fecal Matter when you just began?</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: I feel like when we first met each other, we were really so angry at the fashion industry. I find it such an awful one. Fecal Matter, instead of complaining about it, was our way of doing something about it.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: We had to find a way to make money, because if we're going to look the way we look, obviously applying for a regular job wasn't going to happen. At that time, we were really fighting against fast fashion. There is no authenticity in the pieces we see at stores. We started creating our own pieces using recycled materials, customising blazers, jeans, and trying to add some personality and vision to it. And we would sell it online. And that's also how we started creating our look and doing our own thing, and then it naturally evolved into image making, into music, into makeup, all the things that we always wanted to do.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">dirty: Coming to the ‘Without Fear’ cover shoot where you both are dressed as clowns. Tell us how you conceptualised it.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: That whole photo shoot is really close to my heart, more than most things we've done recently. Because when we're on the street, sometimes I do feel like a clown, and I'm sure you do too, Steven. People look at us differently, they treat us differently, similar to how they would if somebody had a big red nose and hair like a clown. So we really wanted to channel that feeling in the photo shoot and make it something really beautiful and powerful.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: What people don't realise is that we actually don't want to be looked at, and what we’re doing is not for ‘attention’. We want to be able to just go to the grocery store in our full look, in our full identity, and just be left at peace and be treated like a human being like everyone else.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">dirty: What is your creative process like? Your inspiration, your conversations, your ideas?</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: I always say Fecal Matter is kind of like an argument between us because we're always fighting for our opinions. And that creates Fecal Matter, because it really is both of us coming together to make something, whether it's makeup or music or clothing, whatever it is, it’s really both of us battling it out to create something beautiful.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven:  If there's a feeling that is so pronounced that actually drives us to do something, we know for sure we have to do it. And if we don't feel that with something, then we let it go. It's a combination of different mediums that we love to look at. Whether it's exhibitions or movies or literature. But a big part of it is really, autobiography, what's the word?</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: Autobiographical, I guess. Yes.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: When we just moved to Paris, we had this big vision that Paris would be this ultimate free space where it’s all fashion, high fashion. You walk into any environment and there's so much expression, there's so much beauty. And as soon as we got here, we realised that it's the complete opposite, actually. People are so scared to be themselves. People are so trapped in the codes of beauty and luxury and acceptability. And we saw how much we stood out, and the consequences of standing out in Paris are not the best. So a big part of our work is to tell the story of what we're going through with the everyday codes. We're kind of like an eruption of feeling. We're an eruption of visuals, of proportions, of silhouettes. And sometimes that scares people here in Paris. But we use those feelings in our creative process for sure.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">dirty: Is there anything that scares you? I see a lot of comments on your posts asking you to “fear god” for one.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: In terms of all the Jesus and Christianity references in our images and work, Steven grew up Mormon, I went to Sunday school. So religion was a big part of both of our lives. Obviously now we don't really follow anything, I guess we believe in the universe and we're very spiritual people.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: We really believe in manifestation.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: Manifestation, yes. I feel like that's like a big navigational tool that we use in terms of moments of despair, moments of complete chaos in our lives. But with that being said, in terms of the fear of death and all of that, growing up, it was really all about hell and heaven and the concept that if you do good you're going to go to heaven, if you do bad, you're going to go to hell. What doing good represented was a very narrow guideline to follow— a very structured, specific life that I think no one in even humanity can follow. Not even Jesus.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: I’ll be honest, when I was twelve years old I was very suicidal because I was trapped in a very religious home. I was like okay, I have feelings. I kind of like men as well. I kind of want to live my life this way. I'm sure I'm going to go to hell. I'm for sure going to lose all of my family members. They're all going to hate me. And I was so scared I tried to kill myself because I was so petrified to lose everyone and everything that I loved.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: And go to hell.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: And go to hell! And to be honest, the fear of losing the ones I loved was what scared me the most. On a personal level, now, I think the thing I'm most scared of losing is Hannah. I could lose everything, but Hannah. I'm always so scared of that. I guess it's a very micro way of looking at the whole afterlife.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: And we always talk about what happens in the afterlife, and obviously nobody really knows because it's not like somebody can come back and tell you what happened.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">dirty: What do you think lies on the other side of life?</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: I kind of hope it just goes to black because I really don't feel like starting over again, if I'm being really honest with you. But I do sadly believe that everything in the world is very cyclical. It's very circular. It's very infinite. Even though I wish it just ends. There’s also the theory that when you are about to die or you're dying, your life flashes before your eyes. So imagine right now you're living that. You’re dead, and you're going through your life.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Steven: Which is why a lot of people, or even Hannah and I sometimes feel like we've met each other before, or that we have this distinctive connection that goes long back.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: Intuition and destiny.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Steven: I'm definitely interested in that concept. But in terms of what happens in the afterlife, I guess I do believe in reincarnation in many ways. I think that it's totally possible to reincarnate, whether it's through a different species, a different person.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: Yeah. I just don't feel like restarting. Absolutely. And I'd be without you. What would we do?</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Dirty: Hypothetical question, you’re dying today, it’s your last day on earth. What do you wear? What do you do? </h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: There would definitely have to be a lot of outfit changes. I would need a lot of my favourite stuff. I would definitely need a full archive McQueen look. And then I would need a whole Rick Owens head to toe look. And then I would need an outfit that we made.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: So Hannah would go to a buffet of clothing.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: What would you do?</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: If I knew it was my last day, I would definitely try to organise it as some type of finale, artistic performance. So I would want it to be engaged with the art world or the fashion world. I would for sure want to see the people I love. I would want to spend those moments with Hannah and my family, just to reconfirm to everyone how much I love them and how much I care about them. And be around nature. Yeah, that would be cool. And I guess in terms of eating…</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: Well, you're really going through the day.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: I'm imagining me being on death row. I mean, I’d definitely eat something spicy. So probably some Indian food.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: Like your mom's food.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: Where would you want to be, though, in New Zealand?</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: I would want to be with you or with family, but definitely just nature. Like, I don't know if it's by a beach or it's in a lake or in a forest. I would have my dad's macaroni and cheese.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: And about what I’m wearing, that's the thing. I don't know if I'd be wearing something new or if I'd be wearing something that I love very much.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Hannah: That's what I'm saying! I think it'd be something from the past.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Steven: Yeah, like something you have a deep connection to.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">dirty: What’s an item you’ve created that you hold closest to your heart?</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: Definitely the skin shoes, our baby. It's like being able to unload your mind and then put it in the real form.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Steven: Same. I think that the skin shoes and the photoshoot are a symbol of everything we were going through and everything that we will continue going through— which is so much about body modification and distorting the human experience. It's about changing fashion and trying to push it to its furthest extent, trying to merge fashion and art, not just creating products, but trying to create pieces.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">dirty: What do you think encapsulates the human experience?</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Hannah: I guess, love is a big thing. This need for connection. We're not just a human, we're humans altogether. And that experience of connection is really, to me, one of the most vital things.</h1>

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<h1 class="centre">Steven: It's really interesting that you ask this question because lately, I'm seeing things and I always tell myself, oh, it's not human enough. We need to find a way to humanise it. And what does that mean? At least for me, it means imperfections that are perfections, flaws that are actually beautiful. Especially in fashion, I feel like you walk into the world of fashion now, and you go to all these showrooms, you open editorials and you see these hyper-perfect, photoshopped, gorgeous, dreamlike, stuff. But it feels so isolated, it feels so soulless, it feels so disconnected to our own experiences. It feels so empty. And to me and to us, what we're always trying to add is that human touch.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">dirty: Do you think that all the distortions and enhancements you make bring you closer to the human experience?</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Hannah: The story about the distortions and being very alienesque, either enhancing that through shaving my head or through photoshop of an image or whatever, to me, it does get closer to my human experience. I always view our alienesque look as in the world we're seen as the “the other”, something that is not human. Being alienesque brings me closer to how human I feel on the inside, in a very complex, abstract way.</h1>

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<h1 class="right">Steven: I feel you. For me it's the same thing. The distortion is because that's actually how I feel. I'm not chasing after perfection because I don't feel perfect. I'm chasing after something inside of me that I have always felt like within the real world, may feel different. But when I look like this, I feel whole, I feel complete. It gives me this sense of comfort especially now that this is our norm, this is what we look like, how we see ourselves in the mirror. That's so normal to us. It feels so normal. That’s our version of what the human body looks like. Hopefully it helps other people understand that they don't have to look like the stereotypical billboard images of whatever is on there. That there are different-looking alternative people, and it’s okay. So I think distortion is a big part of the human experience. I think we may take it to a different level than most people, obviously. We push it. But I think that's because we're extremists and we're who we are.</h1>

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<h1 class="left">Photographer: Steven Raj</h1>

<h1 class="left">Model: Hannah Rose</h1>

<h1 class="left">Hair: Gabriel de Fries</h1>

<h1 class="left">Styling: Nima Mardaneh</h1>

<h1 class="left">Makeup: Steven Raj</h1>

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